Sex and Gender

Posted byRandall 318 Comments on Sex and Gender

I’ve gotten a few emails and /msgs about this so I really wanted to post a clarification.

When I put the color survey together, I was mostly interested in making maps and tables of color names; the opening survey was almost an afterthought. Finn added a question about chromosomal sex, since it’s closely correlated with colorblindness (Finn is one of the rare people with two faulty X chromosomes for color vision).

We debated for a long time to find a wording of the question that would be answerable unambiguously by everyone, regardless of gender identification or any other issues.  In response to a friend who was suggesting we were overcomplicating things, Finn said, “I *refuse* to word the question in a way that doesn’t have a good, clear answer available for transsexuals, intersex people, and people who already know they have chromosomal anomalies.”  I felt the same way, and at the same time I didn’t want to assume everyone remembers what the hell chromosomes are. After hours of debate, everyone was happy with this:

Do you have a Y chromosome?

Don’t Know Yes No If unsure, select “Yes” if you are physically male and “No” if you are physically female. If you have had SRS, please respond for your sex at birth. This question is relevant to the genetics of colorblindness.

We didn’t add a question about gender identification, in part because I wasn’t really planning to do anything with the survey data beyond basic calibration and didn’t want to hassle people with more questions, and in part because gender is really complicated.  We recently programmed Bucket, the IRC chat bot in #xkcd, to allow people set their gender so he can use pronouns for them.  This ended up taking hundreds of lines of code, three pages of documentation, and six different sets of pronouns and variables, just to cover all the basic ways people in the channel with different gender identifications wanted to be referred to (even without invented pronouns like “xe”, which we vetoed).  And that’s just to cover the pronouns.  The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics.

So when I wrote the survey, I really didn’t have anything in mind for the data. After it went up, I saw the DoghouseDiaries comic, and immediately wanted to investigate.  I was really amazed by the results, particularly the top-five list of colors, which came as a complete surprise.  Everyone agreed it was the most interesting of my results (at some point, my friends were sick of hearing me talk about hues and saturations) and I couldn’t resist publishing it somehow.

Originally, my post had a big wall of text discussing how all I had was chromosomal data, and that what the comic talked about was gender identification.  I rewrote this post a bunch of times, and ended up with roughly the wording that’s there now:

[…] realized I could test it (as far as chromosomal sex goes, anyway, which we asked about because it’s tied to colorblindness).

I didn’t want to spend a long time boring people about sex and gender (I’ll talk forever if you let me), but I also wanted to clarify that this was something I cared about and was trying to pay proper attention to.  I ran it by some friends before posting, and they approved; one specifically thanked me for adding that note.  So I figured I’d found a good balance.

But a number of people were still offended or upset by my use of the chromosomal data in a conversation about gender. Now, there are always going to be people upset about anything; as Ford Prefect said, “Fuck ’em. You can’t care about every damn thing.” But this is an issue I really do care about, and one I spend a lot of time trying to get right—and I genuinely appreciate the guidance. If people were offended or feel I didn’t handle this right, I’m sorry, and it’s my fault. But it wasn’t for lack of caring.

And to anyone writing software that handles gender or sex information, it’s a good reminder that these questions are not always straightforward for everyone, and a little courtesy can do a lot to make someone feel respected.

318 replies on “Sex and Gender”

  2. Im a little belated to the comment show hI think the people that get offended over this kind of things have deeper seated problems than simply misidentification on a survey. Is our collective self esteem these days so fragile that everyone who misidentifies out gender is some sort of hugely offensive slight? Personally Ive always kind of had my own questions, but the psychological sexuality really has little to do with the relevant matter to colorblindness and genetics, thats cromosonal sex. I can’t say I entirely understand how transgender people think that this somehow changes their genetic gender, and I continue to be amazed at people who kick up a stink that agency X Y or Z didn’t identify them properly. Though I do suppose I and others should take that with a grain of salt, because there’s always that group of people that make the others look poorly. Im with another woman myself, but you don’t see me making people’s lives miserable about lesbian sexuality or marriage.

    Like

  3. I really can’t see how anyone would have been offended by the question, unless they really can’t bother understanding that colour blindness is a genetic thing.

    When it comes to the subsequent use of the results, I can understand why someone might be upset, but it’s still a bit harsh. Someone described it as using chromosones as a proxy for gender, but didn’t acknowledge that Randall didn’t do anythign liek say “Y chromosone => male”. There’s a big difference between using a proxy when dealing with an individual, and using it for huge collections of data. Much less reliable proxies are used for this sort of thing all the time, and it really shouldn’t be relevant how rude this would be on an individual level.

    Like

  4. I have to second (or third, fourth, ten-thousandth, whatever) any comments that have expressed their love of you for this. And everything else, of course. You’re awesome.

    Like

  6. Props. I am xx but present as masculine. I love your comic, good job, I wasn’t upset by the wording, as you were gathering information not having a social debate.

    Like

  8. wow, if this is how deep our offense to gender identification runs, then we as a society have a LOT to learn about life.

    Like

  16. deep our offense to gender identification runs, then we as a society have bohot kuch sikhna baki hai

    Like

  17. If it’s about the genetics of colorblindness, the question ought to be “Do you have more than one X chromosome?”, in case an XXY comes along.

    Like

  18. After my child was born, I noticed that all the strangers who came to coo were uncomfortable unless they knew its sex. Here’s my child, even at days, weeks, or a few months old, in a stroller or whatever, and people are unsure how to treat it unless they know.

    This isn’t all their fault, of course – some parents are offended if you cannot tell by looking at their infant what sex organs they have under all that padding – but I did think it said something important about society’s treatment of the subject.

    I fantasized about refusing to tell people the sex of the child. Can you imagine what consternation would be liable to result? These folks would not know what to say to an infant unless they knew (or assumed) what sex it was.

    Like

  21. I’m sorry, but gender is lame! (In the 90s we would have said, “Gender is gay.”)

    Like

  23. You discriminate gay and women and men and animals and god probably.
    jk this has nothing to do with any of that.

    Like

  24. “and a little courtesy can do a lot to make someone feel respected.”

    A person getting over themselves can do a lot to raise my level of respect for them.

    Like

  27. Very good article! thank you to the author for it! In it interesting and useful information it is possible often times re-read it! I will advise to read it all friends. It will be very useful at writing of the article . Very much thankful you.

    Like

  29. mation it is possible often times re-read it! I will advise to read it all friends. It will be very useful at writing slamped afraideshed no youre thankler agalesh nice to vet muvked mounta rdkgtjdgjkrtr

    Like

  32. This whole thing is silly.

    “Lets go rewrite all documentation, novels, and anything else in writing, that recommends that someone ‘walk to your local …’, because some people lost or were born without a leg, so they can’t ‘walk’! How insensitive!!!!!11111one”

    Yes, some people are “different” than normal. It can be a sad thing. but pretending that abnormal, is now magically normal, is absurd, not to mention disruptive. It is absurd, and anti-productive, to inflict “hundreds of lines of code, [and] three pages of documentation” on people, for 0.05% of the population.
    ( http://goo.gl/?url=http://goo.gl/WpkoS )

    And for the people who don’t actually have a physical abnormality, but merely have issues in their heads:
    People who want to think they are “really” mighty lions, even though they were born wimpy humans, need to get over themselves, and make the best of reality.
    Similarly, people who want to think that they are “really” gender A, when they were quite clearly born as gender B, need to get over themselves and make the best of reality.
    Hmm… I’m now picturing a potential future xkcd;

    Frame 1: someone thinks “I’m REALLY a Lion!!”
    Frame 2: they go get all pally-wally with a pride of lions
    Frame 3: lion chomping on head of corpse: “MM… tasty human”.

    Like

  33. /’/…/…./…../ˉ
    ……..(‘(…′…′….ˉ~ /’)
    ……………………..’../
    ………………………./
    ……………………..(
    …….

    Google in the input: = tntn.us ==you can find many brand names, even more surprising is that he will sell you the unexpected o(∩_∩)o

    Hello,

    Like

  36. Speaking as a trans man and a part-time dabbler in science geekery, I feel that the way you worded things allowed room for both sensitivity and scientific accuracy.

    Like

  37. Somebody gets offended, they’re too stupid to be able to put together that color blindness is related to genetics. Even though it was said on the same page. If people are that dumb, they aren’t worth apologizing too.

    Like

  39. Pingback: Er det en følsom information? | Hennings blog

  41. Does anybody know how XXY and XYY affect color vision, compared to XX and XY? Does having the extra X chromosome help, even if you have the Y, or does having two Ys make a difference compared to one?

    Also, a number of the previous comments are from people who are interested in the color or gender of spam…

    Like

  42. peaking as a trans man and a part-time dabbler in science geekery, I feel that the way you worded things allowed room for both sensitivity and scientific accuracy

    Like

  45. Sie amk. I was so sorry to hear what you were going through since November….and seeing your Monday April 4 comic – I wonder if things are better or how you’re coping up with the illness in your family. Your comic strip has made so many, many of us laugh through the years and have a sense of humor about life through our tough times, wishing you strength during yours. vay ak.

    Like

  46. Somebody gets offended, they’re too stupid to be able to put together that color blindness is related to genetics. Even though it was said on the same page. If people are that dumb, they aren’t worth apologizing too.
    oh yeah yes…

    Like

  47. considered as a brand for modern design and classic elegance. Wearing links london jewelry makes you out of ordinary in a crowd. Links of Londonis one of the chief jewelry brands in the UK. links of london watches links of london Accessories links of london charm bracelets

    Like

  49. considered as a brand for modern design and classic elegance. Wearing links london jewelry makes you out of ordinary in a crowd. Links of Londonis one of the chief jewelry brands in the UK. linkgood

    Like

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: